[00:00:00] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Amanda. I'm Laura. And I'm Kendra. And today Kendra's gonna introduce a topic about curiosity. I. Okay. Yes. Curiosity. Interesting, huh? It does help with emotional regulation. Go figure. So we're gonna talk about curiosity, not so much in like curiosity, like you should be curious about medicine, keep up on knowledge, but really how it is an emotional cue for us, a regulator.
It really helps keep us grounded in our high-stress environment. It's. As you know, not just in the emergency department, but everywhere or clinic, it can get really emotionally charged at times. And so let us just offer up a perspective that maybe next time that you find yourself in a zero to 60 moment where it's gone from calm to chaos we can offer this perspective and help kind of.
Improve your resiliency, beat back that burnout, help with that compassion fatigue [00:01:00] and the weight of the responsibility that we have as healthcare workers and caregivers on the regular. So, of course, we're gonna bring in Brené Brown, she's our favorite, and we're gonna talk about curiosity as it helps regulate our emotions, counteract shame, and keep us present.
Okay, so what is curiosity and why does it matter? The way we are talking about curiosity, we mean it's this open, engaged state of mind that allows for learning and connection. It's the opposite of like being situated in a rigid, black and white view or right and wrong, of life. So, it recognizes that, hey, we actually don't know everything and there are things that we can learn.
Every day as we move along in life, we can learn from other people, from our patients and from ourselves about, you know, lots of things, especially about how to manage in relationships. Curiosity is a trait. So someone who is [00:02:00] curious is, is kind of the opposite of someone who's close-minded. And curiosity is also a state, and it's a state that.
Helps us to be present and kind of accept reality as it is and learn from it. So being a curious person is someone who can experience emotion and then not feel like that emotion creates a reality. Be curious about why? Why am I feeling this way? Huh? That's interesting. I'm feeling resentful right now.
I wonder what that's about rather than I feel so resentful and they need to do something about it. So see the difference there. Curiosity involves both having a feeling or an emotion and thinking or cognition.
Curiosity can be an antidote to emotional shutdown. And what we mean by that is if you have something that happens and you feel super triggered by it, we can either [00:03:00] react, as we naturally would, our more regressed or lower. Mind is more reactive. Or we can use our prefrontal cortex and engage in some curiosity about it.
Why does that trigger me so much? What is that about? Like, where is that coming from and do I wanna continue to be triggered by that? And it can foster engagement. I wonder why they're triggered by that. Did I, you know, what nerve did I touch on that that was so triggering to them? And you know, obviously we can't open other people's minds for them, but we can sometimes help ourselves understand their behavior just by being curious.
Being curious really can help with emotional regulation. We've talked about this before where back when we were talking about emotional granularity early in the podcast. According to functional MRI studies, if we name a negative emotion that we're having, it actually lessens its [00:04:00] intensity by like half, which is huge.
And interestingly, if we're having a positive emotion, it increases the intensity. That experience of positive emotion. So it's definitely beneficial to us to, instead of just having emotion and being driven by it and allowing reality to just be our emotions instead to be curious about it and say, huh, I'm experiencing some shame right now.
Why am I experiencing that shame? And neurobiologically, you can imagine. So the curiosity is coming from the neocortex. If we're curious, we're pulling blood flow up out of the limbic system so it makes sense from that standpoint that it's, that it's going to help mitigate that negative emotion and help us to emotionally regulate better.
George Loewenstein had an article called The Psychology of Curiosity back in 1994, and he proposed that curiosity is the feeling of deprivation. We experience when we [00:05:00] identify and focus on a gap in our knowledge, prime the pump. So he says you have to have some knowledge about something to be curious about it, and once we prime that pump, then our curiosity can grow.
And according to Brené Brown, in Rising Strong curiosity is the key to reckoning with emotions rather than suppressing them. Yes. So as doctors, most likely, you trained in a place where emotions were not talked about, like our emotions were not talked about. A lot of emotions happened. They were not processed, they were kind of shoved down.
But when we can be curious about the emotions and make sense of them, it helps us to process them in the moment and reckon with them so that we don't stuff 'em down and then develop like autoimmune disease so it's very, very healthy for us to just be curious and she says. Choosing to be [00:06:00] vulnerable and vulnerable in the sense, you know, when we think of vulnerable, we think we're sharing our feelings and, and things that we might not otherwise share.
If we were trying to appear strong, it's actually a stronger position to be able to share. So it's not, you know, vulnerable means like you're. Subject to attack. It's actually you're stronger when you can share. It requires us to surrender to uncertainty, which is actually there all along. So just helps us live more.
In reality, it can be uncomfortable. What I have learned through all this work I have done over these last few years is that discomfort is usually the sign that you're growing, especially when you're trying to do something new intentionally. If you feel discomfort, that's good. That's neuroplastic change happening.
So in the Atlas of the Heart, Brené says, curiosity leads to [00:07:00] deeper emotional granularity and empathy. So remember, emotional granularity is basically emotional literacy. Alexithymia is the opposite of emotional granularity. To my understanding, alexithymia is like basically emotional illiteracy and many of us come out of our medical training alexithymic.
We just have thoughts, we don't acknowledge our feelings, but it's healthier. It's healthier to have increased emotional granularity, and certainly we want to be able to have more empathy for our patients, for our loved ones, it is, it's just higher level emotional intelligence to have more empathy and curiosity is an irreducible component of courageous leadership, and every doctor is a leader of some sort and.
Being curious about how we're showing up, why other people react the way they do, why we do the things we do is so important for [00:08:00] us to show up as great leaders. You know, a lot of executives, corporate executives engage in something called a 360 review. I'm sure they don't do it by their choice, but.
I imagine probably company boards expect them to, and that's where everyone who has anything to do with that person gives feedback and I can imagine how that could feel brutal. But if you go into something like that with curiosity, you can learn so much about how other people experience you and how you're showing up and are you showing up in the way that you really want to and how you intend to. So being curious is so important if you're a parent too. Like if you're a parent, you're definitely a leader. Being curious about how your kids experience you there's nothing but good that's gonna come out of that.
So curiosity. It's great for you. I like that because you know, when you're curious, you can't be judgy. Right? Right, exactly. So if you're holding curiosity for you or someone else, like, or the situation, it's real [00:09:00] hard to be judgmental when you're holding curiosity or you are being curious or you're asking those questions like, Hmm, I wonder why this is happening.
Or I wonder why I'm feeling like this. You know, we've talked about this before, that self critic or just feeling not enough or just that insecurity, sometimes that comes up when shame or something, you know, creeps in. It's interesting how we go immediately to judgment and like imagine if we could just get curious or just learn how to be curious and just really silence that self critic.
'cause it's real hard to be judgy when you're like. It's interesting. How can I learn from that curiosity situation? Yeah. I mean, really curiosity could probably solve all the world's problems, frankly, for sure. Would help a lot, for sure. And the, the thing like you're bringing up is when you move from being judgmental or being filled with shame or.
Whatever it is, anger or whatever it is, and you move into curiosity. You have put a little emotional distance [00:10:00] because now it's almost like you're doing scientific inquiry. Like, I wonder why that person is so upset. Is it me? Could there possibly be something else? This is curious. I wonder you're formulating a hypothesis.
Yes, it really does. Yeah. Be tested. Yeah. Let's, the other thing, let's test this hypothesis. The other thing too, when you're trying to switch your automatic negative thoughts, sometimes it's hard to go straight from negative thoughts to like, oh yes, I, I feel great about myself all the time. A lot of the time, curiosity can be a really good middle, like right.
I wonder if there's. Another way to think about this. Yeah, it is an easy transition to come with curiosity sometimes. And again, putting that emotional distance between what's going on. So there is a relationship between curiosity and shame. Unfortunately, shame is a big component for a lot of us in medicine.
And that's super unfortunate to me. It makes me sad because so many of us went into the [00:11:00] medical field thinking, Hey, I've got some gifts here that I think I can give back to the world and I think I can make the world a better place. And you go from that high achieving mindset. Into perfectionism, which is a distinct shift from an internal motivation of wanting to do good things to then needing to be flawless so no one can say crap about you.
That is a whole different motivation. Yeah. The whole wanting to do something good versus wanting to avoid being shamed. And it happens. Sneaky. It makes a lot of sense when you, we've got these, yeah. Grandstanding M&Ms and gosh, yes. There's a whole lot of reasons why it makes sense that we end up doing that a lot of times, but just noticing that that is something that happens and then.
Lead us to, maybe I don't, maybe I don't wanna feel shame anymore in medicine. I don't wanna be afraid of failure. I don't wanna feel imposter syndrome [00:12:00] anymore. I don't wanna be a perfectionist. Flawlessness doesn't exist anyway, so I'm always gonna fail the expectation of flawlessness. So getting into curiosity can be a next step.
Brené Brown. She didn't come up with the shame spiral. Somebody else did that. I can't remember right now, but like when you start feeling bad about missing a diagnosis or something went wrong with your procedure and then you start criticizing yourself rather than the action. Then you start going into this whole shame spiral of like, somebody else would've done it better.
Maybe I shouldn't be here in the first place. Maybe I should have never become a doctor. Like I knew, I knew all those people were right about me. I knew that I suck as a human. Like, whoa, you know? The stitches got infected. It's okay. Like we can deal with this, right? But like you go into the shame spiral.
What Brené points out is the way out of it is connection and curiosity about what's [00:13:00] going on in the first place. Shame thrives in secrecy. When you start to talk about these things, you realize everybody else is going through the same thing too. That's when you can start to build a bridge out of this shame spiral.
And curiosity can help with that quite a bit.
Okay, so some examples of how shame manifests in medicine. It might be the fear of asking for help. Good Lord. What would somebody think if, if you actually reached out and asked another human being for help with a big problem or assistance?
It could look like avoiding patient conversations that feel emotionally challenging. It can look like self-blame for negative patient outcomes. It can look like all kinds of things 'cause it's rampant in medicine. But how curiosity reframes shame is by, instead of I'm not good enough, it's starting to ask things like what?
What could I have learned from this situation? How could I make it better? What is this experience teaching me? It's moving you from self-judgment into a much more useful self-inquiry. Yeah, I remember even just [00:14:00] being, you know, not even like in peer review or M&Ms or anything, but just even like when we'd meet the attendings in the morning to round on the patients.
So we got, you know, you get there early, you round on all your patients and you have your, like, depending on how many are on service, you kind of split it up. And I can just remember like a little bit as I'm presenting the patient, like even if we've had the patient a couple of days, if it was like a bad case, I could feel myself getting a little choked up and like trying to like, keep it together and like shaming myself.
'cause like I'm looking around like nobody else is fazed by this awful traumatic event that happened to this poor kid. Like, and like just even talking about it. And so I would just be like looking around like anybody else. Feel bad about this, and like, here I am just like, like the mom's at the bedside or just something would be just awful about this whole situation.
And then just really annihilating myself later. Like, how could you get choked up? Like basically how could you be a [00:15:00] human at the bedside of that poor patient? Like, are you kidding? I mean that stays with me to think that I would just shove that way down or even feel shame for like.
Connecting with that bad experience or the family at the bedside, or whatever it was. Yeah. I think, you know, it's interesting. Our brains are not interested in us thriving. They're interested in us staying alive. Mm-hmm. And like your brain at that moment is like, oh, you were different than everyone else.
Mm-hmm. And now you're gonna get cast out. And so you can't, you can't do that. And how dare you put us at risk like that. It's so funny. Like what? Mm-hmm. Our sweet little brains do. Oh God bless it. Bless God. Bless God bless. So practical strategies for, for using this curiosity and especially when it has to do with emotional regulation.
So like Laura said earlier in the show, pause for a minute and name the emotion. Really just sit for a second, like pause, [00:16:00] like we call a. Do this with my son, like have a tactical pause like before you go into the house. Like when people, when you're clearing the house, and I'm not military, but I know enough people, they like pause and then they have a tactical pause 'cause they're getting ready to bust in and like secure the perimeter.
Right. And so I talk about that, but like, what is it? If you could just stop for a second. And name that. And really just like Laura said, bring it back up out of that emotional powerhouse of your limbic system and into that prefrontal cortex where you can actually like. Allow it to happen, pause, name it, and then you get to choose what to do next.
And so that's part of how you become aware. And then instead of just shutting down because you're feeling this wave or overwhelming emotion, instead of shutting down to self-protect because it might be uncomfortable like. Shame or sorrow or anger or whatever it is. Disappointment. What if you chose to engage?
What if you allowed it to [00:17:00] happen and named it and then had your wits about you then to make the choice of what to do next, like just. Sit with that for a minute. I mean, that is empowering. That is powerful to be able to get there. The next step is like asking yourself open-ended questions. Like we said, when you bring yourself out of that self-judgment and into self-inquiry and ask questions like.
What else is going on here? This is interesting that I'm feeling this way. What is this experience I'm in teaching me? Or what can I learn from this or, or what is this telling me? Right? Because your body sends signals all the time. So if we can just stay as neutral as possible and say like, oh, I'm noticing a signal.
What is the signal saying? What is this trying to communicate to me? And then how can I approach with openness instead of judgment? Like just allow yourself, give yourself a little grace in the moment to pause. And then what does this look like in patient encounters? Well, when you start feeling that overwhelming, I.
Bit of rage that sometimes I start to [00:18:00] feel in a room I'm I'll get ready to rage against a machine. I want to just be mindful that something is causing this overwhelming emotional response and shift then into curiosity. Hmm, wonder why this patient's acting a fool right now. Wonder why this patient is choosing to use these words when addressing a professional.
I know like you can really make it, yeah, you can go to the nth degree, but it is about saying like, I am trying to connect, so I'm trying to understand here, but it is triggering a very overwhelming, I do the same in a way, like when a patient is. Triggering me for whatever reason. I'm like, I wonder, which not very functional family member this is reminding me of.
Right, right. I don't actually have an Uncle Charlie, but we're gonna go with Oh, that's what it is. He's who it is. We're tapping into like old, deep down memories. It has nothing to do with that actual patient, but that's what it is. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Okay. Carry on. Oh yeah. Yep. Grandpa's coming back.
Reincarnate right here in, [00:19:00] in front of my face to haunt me. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's really that thing 'cause it's very easy once you feel that overwhelming emotional response to just completely shut down and disengage. But we talked to plenty of clients who said their values is connecting with patients.
Like when they provide medical care, it's not just about influencing or sharing knowledge. They really wanna connect with patients. So what do you need in that moment to stay connected? I mean, even if you have to ask yourself in the moment, like, okay, I'm feeling really triggered getting ready. Like rage against the machine.
Well, what do I need in this moment to stay engaged or stay connected? And it may be like, hold that thought. I need to go take a call. I don't know what the call may be, but it just might be a walk down the hallway and back, like whatever you have to do to really reposition yourself to stay connected.
Then, you know, the last thing is reframing this failure and uncertainty that we're also afraid of, right? How can we, instead of tapping into that self. Use the growth mindset. We talk so often about what can [00:20:00] I learn from this situation? We've said this a hundred million times. We'll keep saying it. In this process, we win and we learn there are no losers here.
This is a process of that growth mindset like. I've done well in the past. This is a new situation, a challenge, an uncertainty. What is it going to teach me or what can I learn? And if we normalize that conversation, if you internally normalize that conversation with yourself, imagine it. Imagine it. Seeds in a garden of self-compassion.
So as you continue to say that or or hold space for you to normalize mistakes or just what you considered was falling short, you're planting seeds in this garden of self-compassion of grace that will only bloom into this curiosity and self-inquiry and non-judgment. And there. There's no shame that grows there.
Right there. There can't be shame that grows [00:21:00] there. And so becoming aware is key. Understanding the concept is key, but even just practicing even just a little bit, this may be a big jump for some of you that are listening. This may be like, I don't know. This is a chasm for me, which we understand that.
But if you can just start small. If it is just. Pausing. If you can start with just that tactical pause, right? Like that's huge, right? If you can sit with that uncomfortable emotion when you feel that overwhelm come and you can sit with it for a minute, that may be where you start, like these are things to work up to.
This is the big picture, the major concept, but it will take just a little bit of effort and intentionality, and you'll get there. So, like we said, curiosity is a powerful tool for emotional regulation. It helps disrupt that shame spiral and self-judgment, and it really fosters and improves our resiliency.
Practical strategies, like we talked about, include pausing, allowing the emotion, naming it. Questions, get curious. Staying present, [00:22:00] reframing, we win or we learn, right? Every situation can teach us something. And so think about it over the next 24 hours, intentionally practice curiosity in a moment of emotional discomfort.
So you know when you're getting triggered, you know when you're starting to feel hot and the neck heat's creeping up, right? You're feeling flush in that moment. Just allow it to happen. But ask what else is going on here. What is this experience trying to teach me? What can I learn here? Reflect on that impact, and then see did curiosity shift your emotional response?
Did it allow you to. Get back to center or Ground. You did it. Allow you to reconnect or reengage with the patient. We wanna know. So share your experience. Email us at [email protected] and tell us how curiosity changed the way you navigate these challenges. Hopefully this episode resonated with you, so consider sharing it with fellow physicians.
Give us five stars, leave us a review all the time. It makes our ripple that [00:23:00] much bigger. So. Until next time you are whole. You are a gift to medicine and the work you do matters.
