DTD 162
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[00:00:00] This is the Drive Time Debrief, episode 162.
Hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Amanda. I'm Laura. I'm Kendra. And today we are exploring the power of friendships. They're incredibly important for our overall wellbeing. So many studies have shown how strong social connections can not only enrich our lives [00:01:00] emotionally, but they also are physically beneficial for us.
That said, when we're working in medicine, despite being surrounded by people all the time, it's frequently very isolating. With current estimates being around a quarter of physicians regularly experience isolation in their professional lives. Even more, 43% may report feeling lonely overall. Forging adult friendships is a little trickier than childhood for various reasons.
For one, in childhood we had structured environments like school and sports teams, and being surrounded by peers, there was less complexity in our lives, less responsibility in our lives. And then those shared experiences like school events and extracurriculars made it so much easier to make friends during childhood than in adulthood.
In adulthood, we have time constraints due to responsibilities. There are sometimes existing friend groups that aren't looking to integrate new [00:02:00] people, and adults tend to be a little more selective about who they're spending time with since their time is so precious. Nevertheless, new adult friendships are absolutely possible.
So let's start though by talking about some of the data. Yeah, I just wanna say that I think this is so important. We get into our careers and into building families and we sometimes aren't intentional about maintaining our friendships and then like it's gonna stink when we get to the empty nest time and don't have friends, so, well, it just seems like everything else is so much more important. But then when we revisit the Roseto Effect, we realize, oh, that should be a checkbox each day. It's not just for fun, it's for real. Right? It's for real. Just for real people. Meaning friends. Yes.
You might not think you do, but you do. Okay. And so here's an interesting fact from MIT, the question is, how important is proximity for the formation of friendships? And so [00:03:00] researchers at MIT have discovered that proximity plays a crucial role in friendship formation. Like makes sense, right? If you're never around someone, you're probably not gonna become friends with them.
The more we share physical spaces with someone even casually, the higher the likelihood that we'll form a bond. And we know this, right? When we were in residency, those friendships we made, then number one, they were made under a lot of stress and we were together literally sometimes 24/7.
So it was easy to make friends then. So this can be an advantage for us when we're working in hospitals and busy clinics because when we have repeated exposure to other people, it builds familiarity with them and that can lead to trust and connection in the best circumstances, hopefully.
So in practical terms, whether you're sharing a break room or working on collaborative projects, or even taking a walk in the hospital [00:04:00] courtyard. That doesn't happen very often for me, but maybe it does for you. Some people get lunch breaks. I hope so. I hope it does. And just being physically near those other people helps pave the way for meaningful relationships.
I will say too, my doc box where I work is like this tiny closet, and I usually sit. So there's like an outer part of the doc box where two docs usually sit and then there's like this closet where I'm usually back there with the apps and we are just so close 'cause we're literally smashed in there together and it's fun.
So just be aware of that so that if you're finding that you need more friendship, you can be intentionally around others who might eventually become a friend. So would it make sense to move into a busier neighborhood? This, you know, certainly if you have kids, so great to have just friends in the neighborhood to just hang out with.
That's so, as long [00:05:00] as you have good boundaries and don't, they don't knock on your door at 11 o'clock at night, but so great to have those people in the neighborhood that you can be friends with. So would it be worth moving to a busier neighborhood? Is it worth going to church in person? If you're a church person, rather than just watching services online, is it worth it to go to the hospital holiday party instead of skipping it?
And I am a, I'm an introvert. Yeah, I'm a very, very proud, dedicated introvert and I will say even I find benefit in going to the holiday parties. Yeah. Yeah. This whole section is for me. If you're not looking for friends, then you don't need to do any of those things. It's just if you are finding a time of your life where like you really could use another friend or two, then it's worth it to be aware, oh, I'm literally isolating myself from all of the opportunities. Maybe that's not the best strategy. Right? And I'll say, if you don't [00:06:00] think you need friends, just be sure to look around and make sure it's because you already have a bunch of 'em.
If you think you're too busy for friends, then you do need some friends. You need some friends. It's like the whole thing about meditation. If you don't think you have enough time, you probably need to do double. Yes, exactly.
Okay. So in addition to proximity, the amount of time we invest in relationships is also key. There's a quote from Aristotle: "Wishing to be friends is quick work, but friendship is a slow ripening fruit." Research from the University of Kansas suggests that's true. Different levels of friendship require different thresholds of interaction.
We'll talk about three of them. Acquaintance level friendship, which equates to about 50 hours of quality interaction, and that usually fosters a basic connection. Moderate or casual friendships, somewhere around 90 hours of shared time tends to foster a stronger, more comfortable bond, and then the deep and intimate friendships.
This may take upwards of [00:07:00] 200 hours of meaningful interaction to develop the deeply intimate and trusting relationship. Now these milestones aren't hard and fast rules, but they provide a helpful framework for understanding that meaningful relationships develop gradually with consistent effort. Here's the bad part.
The University of Kansas study showed hours working together just don't count as much. It was easier to form these friendships by casually hanging out, like joking around, playing video games, et cetera. So that's why it's going to be important to be proactive about doing things with potential friends outside of work as well.
And you're not imagining things if you don't feel as connected to people if you're working with people but not doing things outside of work. Well, I will say too, if you're goofing off at work, sometimes that's bonding. Well, yeah, I think all this shows is that like, it's easier, like the oxytocin bond is probably easier when you're not doing a task, when you're just hanging out. And again, too, the Kansas study [00:08:00] showed like 50 hours for a casual friendship. I feel like I can get there much faster than that. Yeah. But we're just reporting what they reported.
Just to highlight that it does require intentionality and physically being with someone, or at least, you know, some of the time, a zoom is gonna be necessary or something. That's better than nothing. But if you're able, being in close physical proximity for time is a good idea. So some do's and don'ts when forming a new friendship.
You know, if you haven't formed a new friend in a long time, it's easy kind of to forget how to do that. It's not, again, we're not in school sitting next to each other, our own peer group for eight hours a day. So do be present and listen. Like for example, when meeting someone new, put away your phone, engage in active listening, ask follow up questions about them to indicate genuine interest.
Do initiate and follow up. So for [00:09:00] example, after an engaging conversation, say at a conference or maybe during a hospital break, maybe you met somebody in the hospital break room, send a message like, "I really enjoyed our chat. Would you want to grab coffee sometime?" That's moving that from work to outside of work, you know, and to find a super, super close ride or die bestie, you might have to interview several potential friends.
It's okay. Not everyone is for everyone, but if you're doing this consistent follow up reinforces that budding friendship. It's like you've planted the seed, now you're starting to pour some water on it so that it can have the right milieu to grow. Do share appropriately. Opening up with a personal story or challenge in a measured way can build trust.
It also shows authenticity and invites reciprocity. But notice it does say in a measured way, you do not want to spill everything on somebody who's not there in the same way. For [00:10:00] you, that's going to take a little bit of vulnerability, a little bit of personal stories, and seeing if they are somebody who can be trusted or not, and then opening up more and more and more.
Please don't announce everything on Facebook. That's not what this is telling you to do. It is to open up, take down the walls with somebody who has earned your trust, and then do honor boundaries. For example, if a colleague mentions being swamped or needing personal space, acknowledge it respectfully and suggest connecting when it's more convenient. You may want a close friendship right away. But this is a relationship between two people, and it's that appropriate give and take. Somebody may have different boundaries than you do, and please honor that.
So don'ts. Those were the dos. Now let's talk about don'ts. Don't dominate the conversation. Please avoid turning every single dialogue into a monologue about your own experiences. Encourage a balanced exchange by inviting the other person to share their perspectives. People get nervous, right? And you just start talking, and you start talking, talking, talking. [00:11:00] Please notice you're aiming for like a 50/50 exchange.
Also, don't overshare too soon. While vulnerability is key, divulging too many personal details on a first meeting can be overwhelming to the other person, right? A lot of us have not made new friends in a long time, so we need to thaw that wall, thaw that block of ice first. Let your relationships develop gradually. Don't be inconsistent. If you agree to meet up or follow up, honor that commitment. Flakiness can discourage the other person from investing further in your relationship. And don't rush the process. Understand that meaningful friendships require time. Do not be discouraged if a connection doesn't deepen immediately.
Don't be discouraged if the relationship doesn't deepen at all. We're not supposed to be deep friends with everybody. But do make consistent quality interactions. Those are the building blocks of trust. You guys knew all that already, I'm sure. Just a reminder, probably a good conversation to have with, if you [00:12:00] have teen kids, that's, or even elementary school kids, that's great information for building new friendships.
So what are some actionable steps for busy doctors who need friends, and we all need friends? We need some more friends. And if we need to see our friends more, this is how we can do it. Utilize proximity. So we're gonna take advantage of everyday moments where we can grab lunch or a coffee with a colleague in the break room. Again, doesn't happen for me really, but as we're wolfing down our stuff in front of our computers, we chat sometimes, or walk with a fellow physician during quiet moment between shifts, or you know, if you work in a clinic and you're not answering your messages all your lunch break, maybe you could do that, or just scheduling time with someone that you miss that you haven't seen in a while.
Recently, we traveled to Costa Rica for a conference for [00:13:00] As I was approaching my gate at our tiny, tiny airport, I saw a friend that I had not seen in like a couple of years and it was so good to see her. And I was like, you know, dang, this is embarrassing that I'm seeing you here. And it was great, you know, 'cause we're like, we're gonna have lunch. But think about the people that you haven't had contact with in a while, and make a commitment to once a month, do lunch or coffee with those people so that you can reconnect. Invest your time intentionally.
So we know that friendships evolve over time. We feel like we become besties pretty quickly with people, but it does require some time. So it could be a short 15 minute conversation after work or at a meetup, or you do something longer on the weekend together. Just doing something consistent matters [00:14:00] and you want to aim for regular quality interactions to build your social network. So again, like what is your goal? What's your friendship goal for this year? Last year, my husband and I had a goal of doing something social with another couple at least once a month, and that felt doable.
It didn't feel overwhelming, and we were able to do it, and it was totally great. I highly recommend that. So think about what you wanna do for yourself as well. It could be just like sending a text to one of your long lost besties once a week, or scheduling time for a phone call. You wanna leverage any shared interests you have.
So if you like pickleball, you can join the pickleball group. I know Amanda and Kendra do that. Mm-hmm. If there's something else, some other activity that aligns with a passion that you have, running, a book club, or even if you have a specialty specific group that's not just talking about work, then do that.
Go to that. You can start [00:15:00] your own book club if you don't have one. Those are fun and easy to do, and you don't always have to read the book. You just go and socialize. So that creates natural conversation starters, just having that shared activity and also provides some common ground. I'll say for conversation starters, I am not afraid to just whip out the internet on my phone to look for conversation questions. There's always some interesting things to find in there and it does start some good conversation and helps remove some of the awkwardness.
Start with small steps. Remember that forming an acquaintance level friendship might take just 50 hours of quality interaction. I don't like... I agree. I don't think it takes that long, but that's what they said. But each interaction, just think of it as like money in the emotional bank account of your friendship, and that's gonna build towards a deeper connection and then balance vulnerability and boundaries. As we mentioned, we know you guys are [00:16:00] not just like spilling all your personal stuff.
You can share just kind of like gauge with the other person and see what their comfort level is with what you're sharing. And just be mindful of your comfort level and theirs as well. And if you find yourself with someone who is spilling all their stuff onto you, well that's an opportunity for you too, to create a boundary and realize, you know, if you have left the interaction with that person and feel more drained than you did before going in, that might be a signal that you can keep them at acquaintance level and look elsewhere for your besties.
Yeah, I like what Brene Brown says about Marble Jar friends. She talks about self-trust, but also building trust. And she has a great mnemonic too that they talk about in her company and industry, but also building self-trust. But she talks to her daughter about Marble Jar friends and how, you know, you have [00:17:00] friends that consistently put marbles in your jar. And then when that jar's full, you are pretty solid. You know that you can count on them. They can count on you. So I like that. Like I just see that in my mind, that picture in my mind brings a smile to my face. 'Cause some people take marbles out of your jar and to the point where there's no marbles left. And that's probably a really good sign that that's not when you wanna invest a lot of time and energy in.
But I love her concept of the Marble Jar friends, and coming from her daughter's elementary teacher that would put marbles in the jar if the, you know, class was behaving and doing something good every day. And once it got full, they would have like a pizza party or a cupcake party. So there's always that reward, but I think that that does, it's a good analogy for also your marble jar friends that have built trust along the way.
So, friendship wants to recap here. Friendship is a lifelong prescription and we know there's lots of data and we've talked about a couple articles and we've done podcasts on the Roseto Effect and some others about connecting and staying in community [00:18:00] 'cause it really does reduce stress. It boosts your immune system. It, you know, obviously gives you some feel goods in the dopamine and oxytocin realm, and they're really essential to overall wellness. We saw it as an independent risk factor. That loneliness really needs to be up there with the check box of how much do you smoke, how much do you drink? Do you have community on the regular?
Proximity and time are powerful allies in building friendships, relationships, being near, even in the same city, or working in the same hospital, or even going to the same grocery, whatever. That consistent time can really enhance the likelihood of forming these meaningful connections.
We talked about some do's and don'ts that we wanna practice active listening and initiating the follow up and staying consistent and respecting boundaries. And then invest in the process. You know, be intentional. Recognize that building a deep, intimate friendship may take upwards of 200 hours of quality interaction.
So embrace the journey. Don't rush it. Wait for those marbles to fill up that jar. And as we wrap up today's episode, we encourage you to take one [00:19:00] small actionable step this week toward forming or deepening a friendship. Whether it's reaching out to a former colleague or joining a local group, every interaction counts.
Remember, sometimes your next great friend is just one conversation away. And if you'd like to have a free chat with a physician coach, use the link in the show notes. That's also where you'll find access to the free video, "How to Crush Physician Burnout for Good Without Cutting Back Hours, Quitting Medicine, or Sucking It Up in Silence."
Thank you for tuning into the DriveTime Debrief with the Whole Physician. If you found today's discussion on friendship helpful, please share this episode with your colleagues and leave a comment or leave a review and give us five stars. Until next time, you are whole. You are a gift to medicine and the work you do matters.
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