Amanda: Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. I am Amanda.
Laura: I'm Laura.
Kendra: And I'm Kendra.
Amanda: And today, we have already talked about losing strategies in relationships, and Laura is going to introduce us to winning strategies in relationships.
Laura: Yes. So we've done two podcasts now on losing strategies that sadly we all do in our relationships and hopefully do less over time as we learn to recognize and avoid them.
And this particular podcast on winning strategies is coming from the work of Terry Real. And as a reminder, Terry Real is a marriage and family therapist who has been in practice for over 40 years. He lives in Boston. He's really brilliant. And,if you're ready to leave, but you want to give it one last shot.
He's the guy you go to. And he does really great work helping get couples back on track. And so. We're just huge fans of his work. His most recent book is called Us, and we want everyone to read it. So please check it out. But until then, we're going to just talk to you about some winning strategies.
And just as a reminder, the losing strategies, they are instinctual. They are often very self protective. They're the natural things that we do, and they aren't great for building loving and truly intimate relationships.
Kendra: And we've talked about this before when we've talked about who you show up in relationships: your, adaptive child versus your wise adult. And we talk about those two different parts of you that show up. And typically, the losing strategies is your reactionary, adaptive child. It's strategies you learned how to cope when you were in your childhood with situations that, you know, weren't always, the most adaptive. Or maybe you adapted the best way you knew how with the tools that you had at the time.
So when we talk about these, remember, we're coming from a very loving place. There's no judgment here. We're here to help.
We are talking today, these winning strategies, on intimate relationships, so significant others. But you can take something from all of these in order to improve your interpersonal skills.
All right, so let's get going. So one of the losing strategies was complaining, right? So we're shifting from complaining to request. And so this is a nice, gentle landing place. We can make requests. The expectations with a request tend to be received a little better. Once we complain, it really sounds like we're dissatisfied. So we may get a defensive reaction back to our complaint because it really carries with it a little bit of a negative undertone.
It focuses on what's wrong or what you don't have rather than what you need. So a request is really saying like, "hey, I need this." So it's really focusing back on you and just saying what you need. And instead of that negative connotation a complaint can have, when you keep it self focused, it really allows for your partner to consider like, okay, and maybe get creative with meeting this need.
Right. So you kind of put it in their hands. And, it offers a clear pathway for understanding. So when you're trying to ask your partner for something, instead of complaining about what you don't have, you make a request of what you need. And we talked about this before in therapy. It's a little gentler, and it's really asking for what you want.
And when you start doing this work, just so you know, this does not come naturally. It comes a lot more naturally just to complain all the time, right? So it's going to take practice. You may have to be intentional. And I'm speaking, I am speaking from the pulpit here of the work I am doing. Like, I didn't know how to reframe it into a need. It was a lot easier to say, like, "I'm not getting this," or complain about what I didn't have. It took some work to reframe that into a request of something I needed. I had to go back to the place of like, "okay, what am I not getting here? Like, am I really mad about this? Am I really just want to point a finger. Do I want to blame? Like, what am I doing here?"
So, there is some pre work to be done. We will go through a few examples in each of these winning strategies, but before you can even go to your partner, you may have to do a little self work. Okay.
So, here's the example. So learning how to speak and ask for what you want. Jess complains that Sam never helps with the housework saying, you just leave me to do everything around here. Preach sister, right? Okay. After Jess shifts from a complaint to the request, this is what it looks like. So instead of you leave me to do everything, I always do everything. I always do the laundry. You know, those words always, never. She says, which is a request, "Would you be willing to handle the dishes on weekdays so I can focus on other chores?" Okay, boom.
Laura: I love this because what's at the heart of this is honoring the other person's ability to choose. Like when we make demands and complaining, it's like, it's kind of boundaryless. Like we expect people to be a certain way so we can feel better.
But when we're making a request, we're honoring that they can choose. Terry says, if somebody makes a request, make sure you have a good reason if you're not going to accommodate it in your intimate relationship. But but it is so important to acknowledge that we each get to choose. Every moment of every day, we get to choose who we want to be and what we want to do. So.
Kendra: Basically it's also like, you put a request out there, "would you be willing to do the dishes on weekdays?" So your partner's able to hear weekdays seem like that could be semi hectic, and it sounds like we need a little more help on the weekdays than the weekends. I don't know. But at least they're giving an option. So then maybe the partner could come back and be like, "Okay, maybe not every weekday, but could I do the nights you work, so like Monday, Tuesday, Friday." I don't know, but it just gives, it gives your partner a little better understanding. And so the result is Sam understands exactly what Jess wants and agrees, which prevents an argument.
And now we're cooperating. We're cohabitating. We're in a give and take here, right? So you made a request of a need that you wanted, and it came from a position or a stance of cooperation, really. It's like, "Hey, can you just help me out here?" And it was pretty specific.
So it wasn't just like, can you help me with the dishes? Like figure out what days you need the most help, right? The days you work late or overnights or whatever. I don't know, but it's pretty specific, but then it also is reasonable.
Amanda: I also like that it says, would you be willing, because this is how I know I'm a little bit special and quirky is because my husband's like, he, like, their family operates in a lot of subtlety and it's like, do you wanna, would you, like, do you wanna make the salad? And I'm like, do I want to? No. I am willing, though. I'm watching myself say it back like, you're not normal. But, okay.
Laura: Well, I'm not normal. Right there with you.
Amanda: I never came advertised as normal. So I feel pretty confident about that.
Kendra: Yeah. So, so yes, we make the request, and it's specific and it's reasonable. Or if it does seem unreasonable, the partner can always choose to come back with something else.
So we're working towards understanding and cooperation. So before, when it was a complaint, Sam might get defensive. He's like, I don't know. Why are you criticizing me? I didn't even know you needed help with the dishes on the weekdays. But now Sam has a action plan. Like he understands what the need is and where Jess needs help.
Right. And so now there's an action plan and he's like fully embracing the action step. Of course I got this. It's clear, it's reasonable. And now, you know, the need gets met. You got help. Everyone understands moving forward. So that's shifting from complaint to request.
All right. So now we are speaking to a repair with love and respect. So we talked about repairs, making repairs. Actually did 2 episodes. One having to do with our kids, and one making a repair with adults, our significant other. And, Terry likes to say this, we are in a constant dance of harmony, disharmony, and repair. And repeat. This is a dance that is what relationships are about.
So, conflicts are inevitable. But when we approach a repair with respect and love, we're actually reaffirming our commitment. It could actually be that bid for connection. And when we're working through an issue, you can take this stance of like, "Hey, I want to work together for this. Like, I'm turning towards you, because together I think we can work through this." So, contract with your partner for a 10 minute dialogue- or repair conversation. And this may need to be scheduled. I know it sounds weird, but like for my house, my husband and I, we're physicians. Like it's crazy town here.
So there maybe need to be a text like, "Hey, are you free tonight or tomorrow at lunch or whatever? I just need 15 minutes of your time." So it may need to be scheduled. And that also helps to lower frustrations because it's scheduled. So the expectation isn't that he just gives up 10 or 15 minutes, God knows when, but I've set it up. Like, hey, I'm making you aware. I need 10 or 15 minutes of your time.
So the example, Michelle and Ryan argue about time management. The argument stretching on for hours and it escalates. That's so weird. When does that happen? It escalates into a personal attack, right? Both sides are defensive. Four horsemen come out and done. After, though, once we equip them with approaching a repair with love and respect, they agree to a 10 minute repair conversation where they can both remain calm, discuss the issue, and they're being mindful. So they know that there's only 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes of the conversation. And so you're choosing your words carefully. You're aware that you need to give your partner some part of that time because that's how a repair happens. You say something, you reflect back, you give your partner some time, and then you reflect back, right? So you got to have time in there to do that. And then, Terry likes to say this a lot. It's, it is a shorter focused conversation, but really you're remembering love, like remember you love this person, right?
This is your partner in life, and so, you are remembering that you actually love this person. So, so it kind of gives you a little bit of gut check, heart check there. So, we have a time limit to the dialogue or the conversation that we've made the request to have. The second part of that is remembering that you actually love this person, right? This is your partner in crime. Before, before we remember that we love this person and that they're our confidant, Michelle feels tempted to bring up past grievances leading to emotional distance.
So this is where that like time thing, if you had a nebulous amount of time, you're going to read the history book and bring up every fault and start blaming and doing all the things. After though, Michelle silently recalls her love for Ryan before they begin the discussion, which helps her approach the conversation with empathy. When you remember that you actually do love this person and you're intentional about getting your mind and your brain and your heart all in line before the conversation, it tends to go a little bit smoother.
Now, the next one is using the feedback wheel and Terry talks about this four step feedback wheel. And so basically if you're bringing something up that may or may not get heeded, but it's a grievance conversation nonetheless, you have a time limit, you're remembering you love this person and then this is kind of how you go about it. You say what you saw and heard. Because remember Terry, and Relational Life Therapy, is all about an understanding.
So like objective reality, your objective reality, Your partner's objective reality has gone away. Like, this is not the goal of the thing anymore. The goal is an understanding. So you say what you saw and heard from your perspective. What you made up about it, meaning what it triggered, be aware of the thoughts it triggered and how it made you feel.
And then you make the request what I'd like to happen or what I need. Right? So, so when you schedule this conversation, you should also be going through these four steps of feedback wheel, considering what you're going to say. What it was, what you made up about it, like your thoughts, your feelings, and then make your request.
So, an example is, "when you didn't call after work, I assumed you were prioritizing other things over our evening together. I felt hurt, and I'd like to agree, or I need a way to communicate about our plans." Okay, and then, the last step is letting go of the outcome. So he always talks about you want to be right or you want to be married?
So the outcome here has to go. It is no longer about convincing your partner to see your reality and vice versa, you being convince to see their reality. You both perceived the situation from the chair that you sit in, which is so full of all these life experiences and everything else, that there's no way that you're going to come in a 10 to 15 minute conversation, get on the same page.
So, when you let go of the outcome, you can really focus on the understanding. You understanding your partner and your partner understanding you. So before, Ryan would feel frustrated if Michelle didn't respond to his feedback the way he hoped. So there we go. Frustration, disappointment, regret, all those uncontrolled emotions.
And down we go into the negative spiral, and lead to more conflict. After Ryan focused on sharing his perspective without controlling how Michelle responds, which keeps the conversation constructive and respectful. So when you're both talking from your own shoes, and you're aware of how it made you feel. So these are when you start to become aware of what triggers you.
And then you could even take it a step further and say, "man, where is that coming from?" And just sit with yourself and be like, "wow, I wonder where that come from. I wonder why that triggers me in that way." That's kind of next level. But anyways, you were aware of that, what you thought about it and how it made you feel, and then you figure out what you need.
So, this is a great example. I know, personally, when I have conflict, this is an excellent way to bring something up. So, so, like, the other day, my husband and I were talking about a situation that caused frustration. I was unaware that the situation caused frustration for him, and so I took a step back and I said, "Okay. This is what I heard you say, and this is what I made up about it in my mind, and this is how I felt. So what I need is for you to tell me what you need in this situation. I can't read your mind. Like I didn't realize you were frustrated, so I need you to tell me in the moment. Hey, I'm speaking to you out of frustration. I'm speaking to you about this out of a frustration. Like this frustrates me. Instead of not saying something, just to keep the peace, or not saying something because you expect it to go terribly wrong or whatever. " So yeah.
Laura: Yeah, that last one, like letting go of the outcome, I don't know, for people who have control issues, like many doctors do, we just really don't want to let go of the outcome. But we have to remember that we're responsible for ourselves. We're responsible for how we behave, and how we show up and how kind or not kind we are, and how honest or not honest we are. We are responsible for that, and we can share, and they can choose. They get to choose just like we do. And we can choose in response to their choices. But letting go of that outcome, that's, that feels so uncomfortable sometimes.
Kendra: On the flip side. It can be so freeing. When you're not focused on an outcome, I find that it almost lifts a little bit of the heaviness. Because you're already your brain that you're like, okay, the outcome is not what's important. I need to really understand where he's coming from this, where this is coming from, where I'm triggered.
Right. So you're either understanding your partner or you're trying to get an understanding of the trigger I mean, to me it was mind blowing. Like, Oh my gosh. Like to me, not getting a solution seemed crazy town. Like we're not going to have a solution to this,? We may just test this 400 times and there may not be a solution. That seemed crazy town to me. But then, when you reframe or shift the focus to an understanding, you're like, Oh, now I can see why. We may never even compromise or we may never get an outcome. But gaining understanding, now I have insight into how to maybe navigate situations like this one too in the future.
So it does. I feel like it lifts a weight.
Laura: It definitely does once you can shift into that. I was more like mostly talking about the idea of letting go of it, when I wasn't used to doing that. Was like, what? No. Like, no, I want it this way and I'm going to keep trying. I'm going to keep trying to fix it until we come to a solution, and it just doesn't always happen.
All right, so our third winning strategy is listening with compassion. So listening with compassion helps our partner feels safe. It helps us both feel safe. It fosters understanding, even if we don't agree. And that's another step into good communication skills is that we can listen to someone and even validate their emotions and say, "yeah, that, I can see how that would make sense," even if we don't agree with them.
So we do not have to agree. We're just listening to understand. And so here's an example, Alex and Taylor argue frequently because each jumps in with counterpoints without fully understanding each other's view.
Amanda: That's doesn't sound like that happens often.
Laura: Yes, that is, you know, that's the natural way we do things, generally. Here is a more intentional way, a compassionate way. Taylor listens to Alex's side- and just acknowledging here- it's not easy, especially at first, and we have to really learn how to calm ourselves down sometimes when they are saying things that are so stupid.
Just kidding. But you know, like, that's what our brain is doing. Like, what? How can you even think like that? We have to learn how to calm ourselves down because if we're freaked out and activated, we're never going to be able to show up as our best selves out of the higher brain, out of the prefrontal cortex, we can't do it.
So we've got to learn how to control, like how to calm ourselves down. So afterwards Taylor listens to Alex's side about their family issues, repeating back what Alex shared to show understanding. And the result there is that Alex feels heard, and there's a great saying that is: To be heard is to be healed. And there's a lot of truth to that. So when Alex feels heard, tension gets diffused. Even though Taylor doesn't completely agree with Alex's view, they probably feel more connected.
All right. The next way to listen with compassion is to acknowledge whatever you can. We're not asking you to accept anything that you don't think is true. However, what is the 1 percent truth that they do say?
Like, is there anything in what they're saying that could be true? So example before, Taylor dismisses Alex's concerns about their hectic schedule, leading to frustration. After, Taylor acknowledges Alex's concern saying, I understand why this feels overwhelming to you. Or I hear you. I can see why you would think that. And the result is Alex feels respected, and Taylor's acknowledgement fosters a more compassionate atmosphere. Notice there, Taylor is not committing to a schedule change, not committing to anything, just acknowledging her partner's concerns..
All right, and then the next part of listening compassionately is give whatever you can. So before, Alex expects Taylor to completely agree, which leads to further arguments when Taylor has a different viewpoint. This is not realistic. Really, pretty much ever.
Amanda: Bless Alex. Bless it.
Laura: That's sweet that you want Taylor to agree, but Taylor is actually a different person from you, Alex. Okay, so after, Alex learns that Taylor can offer small gestures of compromise without full agreement, making it easier to reach a middle ground.
So, you know, where can we give on this? Is there anything that we can do to help make the ecosystem, which is our relationship, a healthier place to be?
All right. The next winning strategy, I think this is number four, is to empower each other. So empowering each other, this doesn't mean that we allow someone to have power over us. Terry talks about power with, like you're both equal and you're both self empowered. So, when we empower each other, it builds confidence and partnership, and it reinforces the sense that you're a team working towards shared goals.
Okay, so one way to do this would be to acknowledge the gifts the responder has offered. Meaning, here's an example. Before, Jamie and Morgan each feel unappreciated for their efforts, leading to resentment over time. After, Jamie acknowledges Morgan's support in managing finances, which boosts Morgan's sense of contribution. And the result is Morgan feels valued and more motivated to continue supporting their shared goals.
So, when we can acknowledge or voice appreciation, no matter how much your partner drives you crazy, there's going to be things that you do really like about them and that you do appreciate that they do. And not withholding that can really help make the relationship healthier.
So the next way to empower your partner is to ask what you can do to help them deliver. Like if you're making a request, ask them what you can do to help them be successful in meeting that request. So example. Before, Jamie feels frustrated when Morgan struggles with mail planning, but doesn't offer any help.
And after Jamie might say, is there anything I can do to make mail planning easier? And the result is Morgan feels supported and they work together to make the task more manageable. I would also say maybe Morgan hates meal planning and Jamie might hate it less. And so maybe Jamie takes that task and then Morgan can take a different task that they find less annoying.
Amanda: I feel like this example came straight from my marriage. I was thrown off by you're supposed to thaw the chicken before and was always really surprised whenever I put it in for 30 minutes, it still wasn't cooked all the way. And finally, David was like, you know what? How about I step in? It's like, great.
Laura: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for doing that. And I like your cooking. Appreciate you.
So, lastly, we want to acknowledge whatever we can and give whatever we can. So before both Jamie and Morgan feel like they're giving without receiving recognition. After each takes time to acknowledge the other's contributions, building mutual appreciation and teamwork.
And I can't remember if it was Terry or Jennifer Finlayson Fyfe that talks more about role based marriages versus intimate marriages. And you know, role based marriages used to work when we were, you know, living on the farms. And it wasn't really about true connection and partnership. It was about like survival.
And now a role based marriage doesn't really work the way that we want it to work. We want us to be best friends and we want to be best friends for our entire lives. And it just doesn't work when people are stuck doing things maybe they don't want to do just because. of either their gender or societal expectations.
And so it's really important for us to look at those things carefully and work together as a partnership to get things done and get them done in a way that helps both of us thrive.
Amanda: So the fifth winning strategy that we'll talk about today is to cherish each other. And it turns out, that relationships thrive when both partners feel valued. And we can do this, help each other out a little bit by daily acts of cherishing, in order to keep the love alive and strengthen the bond over time. So we'll give four examples of how you can practice cherishing each other.
The first is give your partner specific positive feedback and appreciation daily. So, this example is going to be Chris and Casey. Before, Chris and Casey rarely complimented each other. They focused only on the day's tasks, which leads to feeling disconnected. This, honestly, was all that we could manage in residency. I also am married to a physician. Like, it was just ships passing in the night, just getting through the day, and that's not the best scenario. So after, each morning Chris and Casey share one thing they appreciate about each other. One day Chris thanks Casey for always making breakfast and Casey compliments Chris's sense of humor. So the result of behaving in this way is that these small daily appreciations help them reconnect and strengthen their bond. And look, it did not take much time at all. Probably even residents can do this.
The second example is to nourish yourself and your relationship with time and energy. So the example of how not to do it is Chris and Casey put off quality time together because of their busy schedules, leading to feelings of neglect. Turns out that we are creatures that crave connection, even the introverted among us. We still do need human interaction and living as roommates isn't the best. So after, they commit to a weekly date night where they can unwind together without distractions. And the result of this action is they both feel more connected and valued as they are prioritizing time for their relationship. It feels good to be on a team, and you do have to reconnect to get that team partnership feeling.
Third strategy is to practice smart generosity. So before, Chris feels drained from taking on extra chores without receiving any thanks, and this leads to resentment. The example of after is both practice smart generosity, offering small gestures to make each other's day easier, without expecting reciprocation every time. The result of behaving in this way is that acts of kindness are more appreciated and the relationship feels less transactional. One thing, I mean, one should not live or die by love languages, but it was eye opening because you tend to treat the other person in the way that you want to be treated, but it's not necessarily what clicks for the other person. So it is worthwhile to be like, would it be meaningful if I did this? , I have a limited amount of time. I want to garner the most credit possible for my efforts. So help a sister out. And, out of these things, which would be the most appreciated? Over time, you can get to know this about your partner, but it is shocking how long you can be doing things you think make a difference ,and they just don't land at all. You are spinning your wheels. All you had to do was ask, probably.
Kendra: You go wear yourself out.
Amanda: Wear yourself out. It's like, none of this is working.
Kendra: I got myself in that trap. I'm like. Dude, I am wearing myself out, and you are not hearing nothing. You're not feeling nothing. You are not receiving nothing. And it wasn't until I'm like, all right, listen, I have this much time. I need to know what is a home run. I need to know what is the line drive. Give me what matters. I'm tired of like, I'm tired of spending all this energy and time that I don't have on things that aren't landing. And like, just doing that was like, oh. Well, I mean you just have to do
Amanda: Yeah, so easy. Like when you actually have a conversation about it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why no one teaches us this, but we're teaching you how. So there you go.
Kendra: Yeah. I feel like it needs to be relationship 101 instead of weights club in high school, but that's just me.
Amanda: Yeah. You can keep on doing that thing that they have no interest in you doing. And enjoy. All right. Last example of how to cherish each other is to give back to the world. So in this example, before, Chris and Casey focused only on their immediate needs, missing out on shared, meaningful activities. In the example of how to do it together, they volunteer together a local shelter that means something to them once a month, and that adds purpose to their relationship. The results of behaving in this way is that they feel more connected and fulfilled, seeing themselves as a team contributing to the larger cause. I think that is beautiful.
Laura: So that's something that Terry Real talks about a lot is that as we become more relational, like, using these winning strategies more, it actually will help the world be a healthier and happier place. And I think you can see, if people are treating each other this way, it really can. And so that reaching outside of ourselves to serve others is a way to foster that in ourselves.
Amanda: Yeah, like you've established that you're a team, and now you can be a force together for good. And that, that feels, for us physicians who tend to be altruistic and want to make a difference in the first place, that's just another way that you can do that.
So let's recap our five winning strategies. They are shift from complaint to request, speak to repair with love and respect, listen with compassion, empower each other. And cherish each other. And each of those winning strategies is a path to deeper connection, trust, and resilience in your relationship. And so we encourage you to practice one of these strategies, maybe two don't knock yourself out too much. Do one that, that you can do in the coming week and reflect on how it affects your relationship. It's just a science project. Just see what happens. And so we'd like to just reinforce that while relationships require effort, these intentional actions are meaningful investments in creating a lasting and fulfilling partnership.
Laura: Yeah. It's uncomfortable. It's going to feel, it's going to feel a lot better on the other side though.
Amanda: Yeah. Do it anyway.
Kendra: Yeah, and that's what we would say. We love Nike, just do it. Because you are going to have to do it because now you have the information, right? Your partner is out there not listening to the podcast, unless you want to subtly drop this episode in their DMs, go right ahead. But you're the one listening, and you're the one getting the information. So you are going to have to do it. Maybe one or two of these. Text something, thank you for taking out the trash. Or thank you for, you know, grabbing our son from practice so I didn't have to. I mean, it is not anything major and it's really also that practice of gratitude. We talk about how much gratefulness can shift our perspective. When we're grateful for things, when we are thankful and show appreciation, it really goes a long way. So, if there was a nugget in this podcast that really struck today, leave us a review. We're just asking for five stars, that's it. And give us a few words so that other doctors can find us and our ripple is that much bigger.
We want to tell you about our new free video, How to Crush Physician Burnout for Good without Cutting Back Hours, Quitting Medicine or Sucking it Up in Silence. Scroll down in the show notes and click the link and check it out today. So until next time you are whole, you are a gift to medicine, and the work you do matters.
